We Must Tolerate One Another Or Die

[mallorys_camera]

poliphilo quoted my favorite poet Auden:

There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die.

Well. We must tolerate one another or die.

But that doesn’t scan as well.

###

We must love one another or die is a difficult formula to live by, given the present state of the world.

Ichabod keeps texting me links to podcasts that will explain what’s going on in Gaza to me, much the way helpful Protestant missionaries used to disseminate Bible tracts to the heathen Chinese.

The Big Bad, it seems, is zionism.

I have a hard time separating out historical “Zionism” from the contemporary (small-z) “zionism.” I always thought Zionism was the movement to establish a Jewish homeland. Mission accomplished, and trust me: I have no interest in living in Israel (although true, I have some vague notion that I should visit Israel some day.)

I still have only the vaguest notion of what “zionism” is. Apparently, it has something to do with conflating Judaism with Israel.

It’s kinda difficult not to conflate Israel with being a Jew when the main chant at a recent pro-Palestinian rally in London was, “Gas the Jews.”

###

The history of that part of the world is famously fraught with conflict.

Palestine was an Ottoman territory that the League of Nations placed under UK administration following the end of World War I. British oversight continued between 1922 and 1947.

The Brits supported turning Palestine into a homeland for the Jewish people.

Neighboring Arab states did not agree.

Nevertheless, there was an enormous amount of mostly Ashkenazi immigration into that area. (Cue theme from Exodus.)

In 1947 the Brits threw up their hands and turned the whole mess over to the United Nations, which partitioned Palestine into two states: one Palestinian Arab, the other Jewish Israel.

The Palestinian state was never established; Jordan and Egypt annexed the territory.

Ensued a 25-year conflict during which Israel expanded its boundaries to include 77% of the original Palestine territory.

This resulted in lots and lots of refugees—approximately half the Palestinian Arab population. Thus was born The Right of Return—the political position that first-generation Palestinians (and second-generation Palestinians, and N¹⁰⁰⁰-th generation Palestinians) had the right to reclaim the property they’d left behind.

To make sure Palestinians were all in on the Right to Return, Jordan and Egypt refused to allow large-scale immigration into their countries. Much better for the cause to keep Palestinians living in wholescale misery in refugee camps along the borders, right?

During this time, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)—a Palestinian nationalist coalition—led by Yassar Arafat arose. The PLO averred that Palestine, as it existed under British control, was an indivisible territorial unit and that the Jewish state was, therefore, illegal.

###

Now.

I’m not big on theocracies.

I can actually get behind the notion that a “Jewish homeland” is not a great idea.

I can also get behind the notion that Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, and Afghanistan (Islamic theocracies) and Vatican City (Christian theocracy) are not a great idea.

But I digress.

###

In 2000 and 2001, a series of negotiations between Arafat and I-forget-the-name-of-the-Israeli-prime-minister took place (the two I remember were at Camp David under Clinton and at Taba; I think there were others, too), and both turned down the best deal they were ever likely to get.

At this point, there is no obvious way forward.

But nothing justifies Hamas’s horrific terrorism.

###

Anyway.

I should just stop consuming media.

I can’t do anything about what’s going on.

So what's the point of knowing anything about it?

Comments

[bleodswean]

I saw his post, too, and have been mulling it over a tiny bit. Even Auden realized this sentiment feels vacant and even paltry once your peers and country begin to be annihilated. I'm not torn about Israel, but I do agree that the problem has been there from the very beginning and expectations were perhaps never not even for an iota of a second realistic. However, we must expose true hatred for what it is - evil. Period.

[mallorys_camera]

I just struggle with the unfairness of the accusations that Israel is solely responsible for the mess.

It's pretty clear to me that the Arab world bears half the responsibility for the mess, and the fact that so many people don't see this upsets me deeply. What else is that blindness but antisemitism?

In terms of the current mess, I suspect if Hamas would release the hostages, resolution would be expedited. I read into the fact that Israel is planning an expensive and selective ground invasion that Israel does care about civilian lives. A total air blitz would be cheaper and far more efficient if annihilation were the aim.

But what do I know?

[bleodswean]

More than half. And yes, we are seeing a strange boldness regarding antisemitism and it's so fucking concerning and where are our politicians to call this out?????

Of course, Israel cares. The propaganda in the media is sinful shit.

[ethereal_waves]

How I wish for that to be possible about people being able to just love eachother and co-exist peacefully, but I'm inclined to agree with your assessment that the most we can hope for is to tolerate each other, at the very least. :/

I've heard it said that it's been the heavy propaganda from zionist leaders, going back to its inception, that has purposefully conflated Judaism with zionist ideology as a way to manipulate getting the psychological support of Jewish people (and others) globally, and to quash any nay-sayers by using the atrocities of the Holocaust and the threat of being deemed 'antisemitic' for not backing them, as inarguable weight to justify whatever they do, apparently in direct violation to the tenets in the Torah. Thus, why not all Jewish people here in the states, and around the world believe it to be a legit nation-state, and many seem to see them as colonizers.

Previously when learning about the Nakba and Lydda Death March, in 1948, it was difficult not to see it as akin to having been another Trail of Tears, this time the Arab Palestinians, that had previously taken in Ashkenazi Jewish refugees from the concentration camps in Europe, with open arms, only to have an Imperialistic entity create division by meating out/colonizing a territory in a region that they were never indigenous to (meaning the Brits, the brits were never indigenous to it).

Before all this 'modern history' mess, to my understanding, for centuries Arab Jewish people, Palestinians, and Arab Christians all lived in the Palestine region, now mostly known as Israel/West Bank/Gaza, peacefully. Though of course there has always been conflict within factions.

I think what I've personally gathered from the plethora of information out there is that the problem hasn't really been with Israel retaliating for the initial Hamas attacks last week, at least not from the Western world viewpoint; it's been the massive scale that they've retaliated in, is over and beyond what seems appropriate for the situation. Gaza does not have a legitimate, robust military backed by billions of U.S. dollars as Israel has the privilege of having. It's an unfair/unequal fight. It really is no war when one side is a behemoth in military power and strength, and the other has far less power, actually no power, to even keep water and electricity running, and over half its population are kids under 18, because the lifespan in that tiny bit of land, due to terrible inhumane living conditions, isn't that long.

Hamas are spineless cowards hiding behind civilians and civilian locations, no doubt.

And Netanyahu is a raging psychopath. I've seen a certain unity in Israel from Israeli Jewish people who have been outraged at what he's been doing there and want him out. As it is the responsibility of a backed government in this world, to follow the conventions of a civilized society whilst in conflict, and not purposefully set out to commit war crimes and block humanitarian aid where it's needed.

I've felt similar about trying to take a break and look away from the media about these events. When you care about the toll of human suffering, in total, it's difficult to look away, especially since some of us still feel the energy of it, anyhow.

[mallorys_camera]

only to have an Imperialistic entity create division by meating out/colonizing a territory in a region that they were never indigenous to

It is a bit mind-blowing when you start thinking about how much Palestine and Northern Ireland have in common. 😀

The problem with rectifying the sins of imperialism, though, is what's the statute of limitations there? How far do you go back? Do we go after the Ottomans for wresting control from the Mamelukes (largely an Eastern European ethnicity)? How about when the French nicked England from the Saxons? Where do you draw the line? These are obviously somewhat absurd examples. But it's a serious question.

One of my favorite quotes is this one from L.P. Hartley: The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.

Personally, I don't think the past ever gets rectified. Trying to rectify the past is a futile exercise. I think the best we can ever do is to learn from the past and strive not to repeat its injustices.

And I agree with you that Netanyahu is awful. Most of the ferocity of the current response is his reaction to intense domestic criticism that the breach of security happened on his watch. I don't understand how Netanyahu keeps being elected Israel's prime minister. It's been painful to watch.

[ethereal_waves]

The commonality between Palestine and Northern Ireland is indeed interesting and I was talking to that with someone a few days ago. It's likely one of the reasons a few Irish politicians have been enraged by current ongoings there, and spoken out against the injustices.

Not all past imperialistic wrongs can be righted, or reasonably reconciled in a lot of far back historical cases and contexts. 1948 isn't even a hundred years ago. No one can make up for the past, but people/governments can try to at least stop perpetuating similar actions to the past, as I see you wrote later on in your comment here. There needs to be an end to imperialistic war machines being allowed to get away with whatever they want. These actions only work to further radicalize the oppressed.

That L.P. Hartley quote has been a favourite of mine as well. Unfortunately, in recent years especially, I've often heard it used from some folks coming at it with the context of dismissing the plight of the oppressed asking and/or fighting for basic human rights, and dignity.

I don't have hope about overall lasting peace in the Middle-East region of the world, ever being achieved in our lifetimes, or thereafter, and never have. That's with me having been raised in an ultra-religious home that supported the 'Christian zionist' viewpoint/indoctrination of Israel never doing any wrong, and being God-ordained.

I know it would take a miracle to have something reasonable happen as far as re-integration of the displaced Gaza & West Bank Palestinians back into Israel/Palestine as a whole, and for them not to be treated as second-class citizens. I feel the path forward towards humanity being able to come together peacefully and understand one another better is to have non-homogenous societies and nations. I know that's a pipe dream.

I don't know otherwise. It's heart-wrenching on every level. I mean, reading about the hateful, stabbing of six-year old Wadea Al-Fayoume, and the attack on his mother, in Illinois over the weekend; a by-product of this conflict thousands upon thousands of miles away, broke me yet again. How is this not breaking anyone with a heart? Who will say to that poor family in the throes of their grief, "Yeah, but hamas." Likewise, to any Jewish Israeli who lost family/friends in the attacks last week, "Yeah, but your government..."

The heartlessness of some people's responses online and in media. The hate humans can have for one another is astounding. I feel so alien to it all, but have always to this planet anyway. I don't understand why it's so very hard for humanity to see one another equally, and care to treat one another kindly. The differences among us are our beauty and strength.

Anyway, I keep rambling — sorry. This entire situation on planet earth sucks miserably, and I wish there were a peaceful conclusion to it all.

[mallorys_camera]

You're not rambling at all. I am enjoying this conversation. TBH, I'm astonished and a bit outraged that more people aren't talking about this. It's the most important thing that's happening right now, and it's happening to all of us.

And you and I are not actually that far apart in our interpretation of events, except that I don't see Israel as the sole oppressor of the Palestinian people here. I see Israel and the Arab world as oppressors of the Palestinian people.

[ethereal_waves]

Thank you for saying that, and I've enjoyed our conversation as well. Not many are acknowledging or discussing all that's going on out there, more than just a few brief words, if that.

We're not far apart in that perception either; I know other parts of the Arab world oppress the Palestinians and treat them like second-world citizens, like Lebanon, and Egypt. Iraq too, didn't treat them well. As far as recent ongoings, one video clip has been looping in my mind's eye for several days, perhaps you've seen it, where a young Palestinian boy is grieving, crying and wailing in the streets being comforted by onlookers, since he just witnessed his sister and brother die from an Israeli airstrike. His pain is visceral, and his little voice cracking and breaking as he shouts out specifically to other Arabs, asking them at the camera pointed to him, "Where are you? Where are you??" Admonishing them for not coming to Gaza's aid. It hasn't at all been lost on me how they've been abandoned and aren't being helped by capable muslim-run countries like Egypt/Lebanon, Iraq, etc... Just currently, Israel's military and government is in control and has the power over gaza, and that whole Israeli region.

[lethe1]

From the moment I learned that the Brits had given Palestine to the Jews, I have never understood why all the anger and indignation always seems to be directed at the Jews, and the Brits walked away scot-free.

[mallorys_camera]

It is confusing.

Plus, hasn't Jordan annexed the West Bank (originally meant to be the Arab part of Palestine?)

And didn't Israel want to give the Gaza Strip back to Egypt? And didn't Egypt refuse it?

[smokingboot]

This remains one of the most facile, clever, cruel depictions of the whole sorry mess. I hope the end never comes to pass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY

[mallorys_camera]

Ohhhhhh! That's excellent!!!!! 😀

[benicek]

LOL yea I'm with you on the theocracies.

Failed religions, all three of them. The communists thought at last they could replace them with something better and instead we got mass-murdering atheism with nationalist and religious characteristics (face palm).

[mallorys_camera]

Personally, I think wars are always about resource allocation.

Religions are just the window dressing.

[benicek]

That’s some extraordinarily well-resourced window dressing though.